When did you start working in theatre?

My interest for theatre comes from my Catholic childhood. I liked the processions, the church services and meditation. When I decided not to have anything more to do with the Catholic church, I was able to meet the ritual again in theatre.

The first time I went to see a performance I was twenty years old. I saw King Lear by a German theatre company. It was boring. In Bielefeld, some years later I saw a street parade by Teatro Nucleo. I didn't know anything about this Italian group. Suddenly windows opened, and trumpets, stilts, fire, musicians and dancers appeared from all sides. I thought: "Wow! Yes!"

I was studying pedagogy and I took part in some workshops, but I didn't really know what to do. I was interested in working in close contact with other people and with movement. I met Siegmar Schröder at the university and participated in a workshop of his. It was engaging and difficult physical work. I loved it. Later I saw many theatre performances and little by little my interest in theatre grew. I cannot say that there was exactly one point when I decided to work in theatre. I never thought I could be an actress and I wasn't really interested in becoming one.

When did you start your group, Theaterlabor?

We founded Theaterlabor twenty years ago. Siegmar had been to Italy and returned in 1983. We had kept in contact and when we met again he told me that he wanted to start a theatre group. I had finished my studies and I had different jobs. I said: "OK, I will be with you." Siegmar, Karin, some other people and I started to work at the university. We had a small room, without windows. We started to make shows on the base of what Siegmar had learnt. At first we met once a week, then twice, then three times a week, and finally every day. I never decided that I would make theatre for the rest of my life; I just felt that it was worth trying, that it was better than working in a home for old people, or something similar.

I am not a typical actress. When I was young I was very shy and rather like a "wall-flower". I was not good! It was not so important for me that I should be on stage in front of spectators. When we started to perform, for the first couple of years I didn't like it. I thought that I was too bad and that I didn't look nice enough. The most interesting thing for me of these first years of work with Theaterlabor was to be in our room without windows, making hard training with five or ten other people, sweating and getting sore, fighting with my body and its possibilities, and then going over to improvisation. I loved the improvisations we did. It was a way of playing and experiencing myself - my body and mind as a whole. That is what I wanted to do.

What convinced you that you could be an actress?

It was a long process. Over the years I became interested that spectators should see our theatre. I was pleased when I made good performances, but I was just as happy when one of my colleagues had a good idea or made a powerful scene. It was not important that I should act before the public, but that whoever did, was authentic, speaking from his or her soul. After ten years I realised that I was not a bad actress! I could be good! I was satisfied by some of my performances. Nowadays it has changed again and I am not really interested in being on stage. I am more interested in helping others, giving ideas for what they can do on stage and looking after the dramaturgy.

What do you think has been your biggest contribution to Theaterlabor?

It has been my love, my total attention to the group and to the idea.

Can you think of a particularly important episode in the first years of your theatre?

Our first performance was inspired by Bulgakov's The Master and Marguerita. The first version was nice, but we wanted to make another one. The second version became important to us because we all put our ideas into it and this gave a really good result. We had many strong discussions. It was a turning point for the relationship between Siegmar, our director, and the rest of the group, and between the actors themselves. We changed. Before we were playing and having fun, but we decided it was not enough. Bulgakov was saying more to us. The decision that we should be honest was an important one.

What were the discussions about?

Siegmar is a kind of director that observes and he doesn't like to tell the actors what they should do, but many of the actors wanted a director who told them what to do. Siegmar would ask us to show something that he would comment. If he should tell every actor what to do, the process would be boring. We took the decision that the actors should propose and then Siegmar would make the composition. We were very young and we wanted someone who could guide us, but there wasn't anyone. We were alone here in Bielefeld. Many people around said that we were slightly crazy. We were afraid, but we had to find out ourselves why we went on stage and what to do there. This was important for Theaterlabor and it is one of the reasons that we still exist.

Did your personal relationship with Siegmar start at the same time as Theaterlabor?

No, it came later. For the first six years, until 1988, I was shy and I had a boyfriend in another town. During the week I worked a lot, and one day a week I would take my car and go out with my boyfriend, and everything was fine. I had a very good connection to the other actors, we were friends. Then Siegmar and I fell in love, I don't know why. I fought against this love for nearly two years. I never wanted to have a relationship with my director! It would be too difficult, it could not function! I didn't want it! No! No! No! The moment the others knew, I was like divorced from them. I was lonely. For example, they would no longer keep me informed about things. It was all-right, I could understand them. I think I would have had the same reaction, because it was as if I had changed sides. This lonesome path was necessary. Although it was very hard, I can see now looking back that it was good for me in order to discover my own way. If this hadn't happened, I would have remained in my "wall flower" role or I would have left the group.

Where did you find the strength?

I started to work more. I developed my own ideas and projects in theatre, also for the whole group. The love with Siegmar was strong and we had a child.

Was it difficult to combine the theatre work with having a child?

Yes, it was very difficult. We had had a meeting in the group and had decided that if someone wanted to have a child we should try to help. We knew of the difficulties of many other groups. I had met many women who got pregnant and had to leave their theatres. We were not travelling so much as we are mostly working in Bielefeld, so it was easier for us. I was the third woman in the group to have a child, but it was special because both Siegmar and I were in the theatre. I took only six weeks off for breast-feeding. Now I know that it was not enough. After six weeks Siegmar took Hanno in the snuggly and we went to rehearsal. We made pauses when I gave the baby milk and we had thousands of baby-sitters. Many friends and Siegmar's parents had to look after Hanno.

Then for the first time I had problems with my health. I looked after our home, the garden, I cooked every day… I was like many women of my generation who think they can do everything. And everything is too much. I thought I was strong, that I was used to working very hard. I had worked for ten years in Theaterlabor and it was exhausting, but then it was only Theaterlabor. Now, with the child, it was a totally new situation that needed a totally different space. We had to build our house, I wished to make a home for our son. It was too much. Now I think it would have been better to take one year off for breast-feeding. But I was afraid to take this pause.

You were afraid that you wouldn't have a place when you got back?

Yes, it was a difficult situation. I didn't trust in myself and that I could come back. I didn't take care of myself.

What happened?

When Hanno was two and a half we made a big project here in Bielefeld with the opening of a museum. It was my project. Two weeks before the premiere I felt a lump in my breast. I thought that I would make the premiere and then go to the doctor. Nothing could stop me making the project. Then after two or three weeks this cancer stopped me. I made a complete total stop. The others started to work with Yoshi Oida, for The Woman in the Dunes. I was envious, I thought the others would become famous, go on television and travel all around the world without me. Why? It was the end.

But when there are important moments in my life, I am able to take decisions. I could say, "OK, now I stop". And I stopped, totally, for nine months. I only went to the theatre three times in that time. I would sit here at home, outside in the garden. It was a nice summer. I thought of what was important: my son, my husband, myself. I recognised that I had made some mistakes.

The first month I couldn't divide myself from my activity in theatre. I thought it was impossible, but I had a lot of time to think about it. I sat here that summer, hours and hours, alone. Nobody was here. I didn't read. I did nothing. I looked at the sky, and it was good. After some weeks I thought, yes it was time to make this stop. It is necessary to stop.

Then I started to look around at other people outside Theaterlabor. It was nice. The last two years I had forgotten a little bit about the rest of the world, I didn't have the time. I realised that life was not only theatre. I love theatre. I have learnt how to do it, it is my job, my passion, it is important for my communion with Siegmar. Siegmar and I talk for hours a day about theatre.

Then I very slowly got involved again in what I prefer to call art rather than theatre. Art is my life. I started painting and writing. I went to museums to see installations and paintings. My world got bigger and at the same I changed from being an actress to more a maker of projects and ideas. My idea of theatre changed. I realised I was not only an actress, but an actress-and-and-and. There was not one thing that is more important than the other. My heart beats for people who make art and for art everywhere.

Do you have a performance you feel particularly close to you?

Yes, it is one of the last, that we made in 2001. It is about Felix Nussbaum, a Jewish painter who was born in a town nearby and who was taken on the last trip to Auschwitz. He painted his suffering. Siegmar, our son and I we went to a museum with his paintings, fifty kilometres from Bielefeld. We were there for three hours, and when we came out, we looked at each other and agreed that we would make our next performance about him.

Not very many people saw it. It was very hard, without words, with strong music and moving pictures. We did it only here in Bielefeld, we didn't go on tour. I don't know why, but nobody wanted to see it.

Paintings are very important for us and in every performance we make reference to painters. As Felix Nussbaum spoke of his life in his paintings, we spoke about him with images. With no special rule, we tried to create a particular energy and a special kind of movement. It was especially important for me because I had had many problems in moving the last years because of my cancer. But when I saw these paintings they touched me so deeply, I directly had the idea how to move. I made a dance in one scene. The movement was characterised by the face, hands, arms and the positions of the fingers. The movements were slower. It is difficult to describe, but I know it was good!

What became central after the training of the first years?

I can speak for myself, not for my colleagues. When we decide on a theme, at first I don't work much, but the theme goes round in my head. I need time, one, two, three weeks. I look for books. I listen to different music selecting melodies that seem to fit. I look for images and objects, and do totally different things, while the theme grows within me. Then we meet at the theatre and we make a kind of training. We go into an empty room and are there together with whatever we bring with us. Sometimes we just work alone, taking an idea of a movement to find in relationship to the theme. It is not a role or a character that is important, but the theme.

When we made The Odyssey, we worked with the whole piece and when we made Barock, we referred to the whole baroque period of 300-400 years. The theme moves from my mind to my body. During the last years it has been important for me to work with the possibilities of my body that doesn't really function. The fact that my body is handicapped has been the interesting challenge. I couldn't move my back well, so I had to try to place the movement into another part of my body, like my face or only into a finger. I used my handicap.

Did your physical handicap take you more towards vocal and text work?

No, the cancer stole my voice. From the moment I got cancer I could not sing. Before I sang a lot, but I got cancer and the singing stopped. It was simply not possible. It was not a physical problem. The music disappeared. I had no difficulty in speaking text or poems, but I didn't want to sing. Even when I started acting again five years later, I knew my singing was gone. It was over.

Do you miss it?

No, I knew it was fate. It is how it is. It was a kind of price.

How did you get back into theatre?

After nine months, I felt very well. The others started to make a street performance and the theme of "baroque" appeared. I started thinking about what "baroque" is. I discovered the famous German poet Andreas Gryphius. I read his poems and loved them. They said so much about my experience in the last period, because he focuses on the closeness of life and death. One must take life while it is there. Tomorrow can bring suffering. Tomorrow you can be dead. Siegmar and I took many ideas from the baroque historical phase to build the performance on the Thirty Years War, the plague, Louis XIV and Versailles.

For me it was good to be back into the group after my break. The feeling was different. The others gave me a lot of freedom. I could say: "I can't carry props anymore, I cannot build up the performances, you have to help me." They answered that they would, they were happy that I was there and they wanted to back me. The connections between us all got better. They knew that I was of their same age and it could be that next year I was no longer there.

We started to rehearse and I thought of what I should do in this performance. I had to do some scenes; Michael, Karin could not do them! I had to do them! I like this street performance. I played it last year the last time. Now we have changed some roles, because I cannot do it anymore. We did it very often in castles, in the region. It gave me so much life. I taught me to think, you can die tomorrow, but today you can move and enjoy yourself.

The fact of knowing that time is not forever, gives you strength?

Yes, it does. When my friends saw the performance, they said: "Angelika is back again." I felt it too, I was back again. I was especially alive with this performance, Barock, for two or three years.

Are you feeling weaker again now?

In 1994 I fell ill, Barock was made in 1995, and in 1998 the cancer went to my bones. I had been feeling tired for some months and I went to the doctor. It was hard, I thought: "Now it is over." But it was not. For two years I was in a lot of pain. In 1999 and 2000 I had to go to the doctors very often. The first time I got ill I had taken nine months break. The second time I got ill I felt I didn't need time. I wanted to work, to live my life now. I had found my life in theatre and everything else was managed fine. My family structure was functioning very well, Hanno was healthy and for me it was no longer hard. I had a lot of help. It was easy. I was very sad, sure, because I knew now that my illness would stay for ever. For the first two years I thought about this, but I would not stop my life now. Now I would really live more than before. I took two weeks break and some medicine, and I worked. I did it. And then we made Odyssey.

All was very good, and then, after two years, the cancer came back. Until June this year I thought it had gone, I had been feeling alright for nearly five years. These were five very good years: my life. I had some toilsome experiences, but I did what I could do, and it was okay. The doctors said I should be careful because the cancer would come back. But why should I think now of something which is not here at the moment. What should I do? Should I stop living? It was out of the question.

Do you feel a responsibility, because now you are in most of the group performances? I hear that you are going to teach somebody else one of your parts in Kamikaze. How do you feel about that?

It is no longer a problem. After we made Barock I decided not to be in another street performance, because our street performances are hard. I was no longer able to do them. I would distance myself from personal acting and this spring I directed my own first performance with a group of young actors. I am sad about Odyssey and Tanz an der Mauer. Some months ago I thought these are the only two performances that I would like to play the next years, but for all the other performances it is not a problem.

Has directing been a new challenge for you?

I don't really think that I am a director. I am very soft and it was interesting for me to see how I could direct. The group is made of six very young actors who love me! Yes! They love me! It is a small simple performance. They are not professional actors. We worked on text and voice. We all liked it and we liked each other.

The others in Theaterlabor made the same experience. We have all made our own projects the last years. We are only four actors and we cannot make one performance after the other. There is not enough creativity!

Do you feel that the cancer has made you see the right dimension of problems, of conflicts, that it gives you a clearer vision?

Problems get smaller. Most of the problems we have in Theaterlabor are not essential. We are six in the group, with Tom and Siegmar. After twenty years of work together we are more silent. When we were young we could talk for weeks about money or how to sell our performances. Today I feel that we have a very good situation in Theaterlabor. We are rich! Nobody of us needs a lot of money. We are not so interested in it, and we are very good organisers so our business functions! The question is more how to take care of our work.

Especially I like discussions. I enjoy fighting! Thomas hates it! When I start with, "Thomas, what have you done?" he says, "Stop! Please stop! I don't want to fight with you." He knows that I like it. I know about him and he knows about me! We are not a family in the group, but we respect each other a lot, and for me that is the most important thing. I have had a very special position in the last years in the theatre. I could come and go, I had so much freedom. No one can buy with money the freedom that I have had the last years.

Is there something that you would still like to do?

I had planned to make a book about our twenty years of existence. To write something myself, but also collect stories, texts and photographs. That would have been my project for the next year. Then yesterday, looking at Mike Pearson's performance I got the wish to make a solo performance! I should be a particular kind of actor.

So the fact of being ill doesn't stop you having ideas and projects and wishes?

Not every day. Last week was very bad. I didn't have ideas and I didn't really want any ideas. Sometimes I suffer from a lot of complications in my body, but then I get over them for example talking or going to the theatre. Often when I see other performances, I get ideas, and on the way back with Siegmar we talk and talk. I go just shortly before performances and I leave quickly, because I don't want to meet too many people. It is because people get shocked if they have not seen me for the last weeks. I have to take care of myself. I am very sad for missing out on things, but I have to be careful. It is life.

At times it is necessary to make a stop, and have a silent normal day and look out of the window. From my bed I can see some big trees and birds. Sometimes I can stay there three hours and look at birds. It is good, I need this. It is a kind of meditation, to be quiet. I had a big fear, eight weeks ago, I felt so ill and our festival was coming up. I thought that it could not function. It was very hard for some days, but I managed. It is like this. I don't know really, we will see. Life always goes on.

I am tired. The last two weeks I have slept two hours a night. I don't want to close my eyes. I don't know how to sleep. But I am not in much pain. I have very good doctors since nine years and they love me. It is interesting… the body.

Is there one particular thing that you can think of that is so important that you want it to be in this interview?

No. These twenty years… Yesterday evening I was thinking what would be important to say, but there is too much. The important things have to do with the people who meet and love. The theme of love is central in these last weeks for me. I think art or theatre… People can only make theatre and go into this kind of work, because it is a possibility to love and spend love and get love. People have souls. These are my questions now: what comes later? There is something. Everyone of us has a soul, I am sure it exists. If it didn't exist no one would make theatre. Why? There would be no reason to make theatre, to be an artist. An artist is peaceful. It is good to make art.